After Image vs Speed Burst

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After Image vs Speed Burst

Post by Future Gohan on 8/11/2012, 4:13 am

After Image

Defense
Your character Speed Bursts away, leaving behind an illusion of themselves where they once were, causing your opponent to commit to the attack. After Image increases your agility attribute by +50% for one action, to help in evading an attack. This works very well when evading direct attacks.
Attack Rating: None
Actions: Augment
FP Gain: +18


Speed Burst

Augments evasion or attacks. You move so fast you become a blur, sometimes seeming like you vanish into thin air. You may speed burst while flying. A speed burst increases your agility attribute by +50% for one action, to aid in evading an attack or launching a surprise attack. Increases FP by +15 for each use.

This is basically the same technique, except After Image costs more DP to use and requires 50 TP to learn, not to mention a wasted technique slot.

Either Speed Burst should be reduced or After Image increased, maybe even both. I kinda feel cheated out of 50 TP for learning it. =[
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Re: After Image vs Speed Burst

Post by Broly on 8/11/2012, 6:50 am

Good catch, FG! I'll show this to Brian when he wakes up.
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Re: After Image vs Speed Burst

Post by Goku on 8/11/2012, 9:11 am

They're not the same.

Your character Speed Bursts away, leaving behind an illusion of themselves where they once were, causing your opponent to commit to the attack. After Image increases your agility attribute by +50% for one action, to help in evading an attack. This works very well when evading direct attacks.

Speed Burst is just like a "sprint" and After Image is a deception with a speed burst built in.

The difference being, if you just speed burst, your opponent will see you vanish from that spot. If you use After Image, you slip away, while they think you're still standing/floating there.

In my opinion, that's a GREAT advantage, and well worth a few extra FP each time. Plus, combine it with Illusion Powder, and you can After Image for free at least twice per battle.

Also, if you rank After Image up, that's 20% less FP, which makes it cost 14 FP, which is less than the 15 that Speed Burst gives. You get MORE for less at that point.

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Re: After Image vs Speed Burst

Post by Eilee on 8/11/2012, 6:06 pm

However, you can actually learn Feats and Specializations that make the Speed Burst technique much more viable, particularly the one that increases the attack rating of strikes combined with them. Even though your opponent might still think you're floating there, someone who can sense ki should be able to see through it easily and it doesn't change the fact that you're using it to dodge. Plus, people won't always role play it as punching the After Image.

I personally think that the After Image technique should have a little bit more of a boost here on the site, but I do understand Brian's reasoning.
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Re: After Image vs Speed Burst

Post by Goku on 8/12/2012, 11:28 am

Sense isn't going to help your opponent see through an After Image illusion. Because, you're leaving some of ki there as well as an illusion of yourself. It looks like you and feels like you.

Otherwise, it would be a useless flavor technique and DBZ character's wouldn't use it.

Also, the benefits of Speed Burst improvement stack with After Image. That's why it says "You Speed Burst away," in the attack's description.

Anything you get for Speed Burst applies to After Image.

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Re: After Image vs Speed Burst

Post by Eilee on 8/12/2012, 2:46 pm

Goku wrote:Sense isn't going to help your opponent see through an After Image illusion. Because, you're leaving some of ki there as well as an illusion of yourself. It looks like you and feels like you.

Actually, characters have seen though multiple After Images before in the series by sensing energy. There's never any indication that you leave some of your ki there -- it seems to be an optical illusion.

Goku wrote:Otherwise, it would be a useless flavor technique and DBZ character's wouldn't use it.

They do kind of drop it later on in the series when people learn to see through it, though. It's scarcely seen after the first few story arcs.

Goku wrote:Also, the benefits of Speed Burst improvement stack with After Image. That's why it says "You Speed Burst away," in the attack's description.

Anything you get for Speed Burst applies to After Image.

Ah, then I think that should be clarified in the technique's description. Though it does offer a nice way to simplify this. Why not have the Agility bonus for Speed Bursting stack with After Image for a total of +100% Agility? I think it would make people a little more confident about purchasing the skill if nothing else. Of course, you could also have the FP stack in that case. But overall, I think just saying that the Speed Burst bonuses apply in the technique description would be fair enough.
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Re: After Image vs Speed Burst

Post by Sigea on 8/12/2012, 4:38 pm

after image and speed burst are pro. it may suck to most as many people do not use agility that much.
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Re: After Image vs Speed Burst

Post by Novashen on 8/13/2012, 1:04 am

When your engaging in high speed combat and then 'speed burst' away leaving an image of your self behind, I daresay that in combat your opponent would not likely have time to 'sense' that your no longer there, at least not until his attack had resolved.

Imagine any martial art movie, and the guy uses after image just before a punch connects, you'd somehow have to 'sense' that the guy your punching is no longer there the exact moment before you strike in order to stop your attack, since I'd say that's not exactly feasible your then left at least in a slight disadvantage because you had committed to your attack and not hit your target possibly leaving an opening in your defenses.

With a regular speed burst, you'd see your opponent suddenly disappear and as you visually recognize your opponent is no longer there you'd stand a much better chance of being on guard against a counter attack.
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Re: After Image vs Speed Burst

Post by Goku on 8/13/2012, 2:07 am

Novashen wrote:When your engaging in high speed combat and then 'speed burst' away leaving an image of your self behind, I daresay that in combat your opponent would not likely have time to 'sense' that your no longer there, at least not until his attack had resolved.

Imagine any martial art movie, and the guy uses after image just before a punch connects, you'd somehow have to 'sense' that the guy your punching is no longer there the exact moment before you strike in order to stop your attack, since I'd say that's not exactly feasible your then left at least in a slight disadvantage because you had committed to your attack and not hit your target possibly leaving an opening in your defenses.

With a regular speed burst, you'd see your opponent suddenly disappear and as you visually recognize your opponent is no longer there you'd stand a much better chance of being on guard against a counter attack.

I couldn't have summed this better myself. This is exactly what I was imagining.

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Re: After Image vs Speed Burst

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